Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

[runbren]

Hi All,

I don't understand why we are being charged the Demand Charge rate for the worst day for the billing period across the entire period.

Doesn't it make more sense to apply that on a daily basis?

For example, if someone turns on the kettle, toaster and then a heater on one of the days of my billing period, I get charged as if I did that everyday.

My demand on the power grid was only applicable on that one day, so it makes sense to do this on a daily basis.

[Johnmollenhauer]

NeilC,

You are correct, one doesn’t have to accept an offer/plan with DEMAND PENALTIES.

However AGL, even with the ridiculous DEMAND PENALTY which is applied to the offer is the best outcome for me.
AGL have a variety of offers available and the have rates /kWh in excess of those used in my plan. As for other suppliers I have only found one who comes close but does not meet AGL outcome.
As for other supplier’s their plans range from 6% to 18% above.

The issue that needs to be addressed is the DEMAND PENALTY and how it is applied. A penalty applied under instruction of the State Governments. It is nothing less than deceit on their behalf.
The other important issue is what is causing the ridiculous and ongoing rate increases.
I would suggest that most of the past 3 or 4 increases are to pay costs of the GREEN ENERGY equipment such as WIND TURBINES, SOLAR PANELS, STORAGE BATTERIES and the ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
These costs will be excessive compared to those for traditional energy generation systems, systems which are more reliable.


Regards,
John Mollenhauer

[NeilC]

@Johnmollenhauer 

John,

I don't know how you have decided that Demand is a better offer.

Have all the data since I joined AGL and could not justify having a Demand Tariff.

My housemate has no understanding of electricity or how to use it. I have tried to explain to her about it but she just ignores it.

For instance she might decide to cook something, even there is no sun (very cloudy) she will cook, ask her about it and she says we have solar I am using it. (Does not take into consideration that there is no Sun and the Heat Pump Hot water service is already running, it's timer is set to start from 10:30 so we get to hotwater for free most days).

We only use around 5kWh per day but she can still get to a rate of 1.8 kWh if we had Demand Tax.

Above is my projected quarterly bill for my current usage (17 days into bill), my demand rate would be 1.8kWh (.9 * 2) if I was to take that option and used 30min reads.

You can see why I have no interest in a Demand Rate as it would COST ME MORE THAN $105 a Quarter or $420 a year.

I wonder if you can show me how you made your decision?

Now just in case you are really interested, I have access to my 5min Readings, for those my peak was .302kW, so to get the hourly rate I multiply by 12 to get a demand charge of 3.624kWh.

That would mean

Yep I can see the savings there....... much rather pay $292 rather than $135

Of course being in SA I am showing you the most expensive rates in Australia (the demand rate including GST is $0.3505 per kWh and would be paying $0.4067 for usage) and only getting $0.05 per kWh for generation.

By the way AGL changed my meter to report in 5min intervals on the 7th October 2022 and did not inform me of the change or the reason why.

I don't know if you process the file that AGL has a link to on your Usage Page but I do, I have not added a demand figure to my program yet but once the file is processed I can do =max(range) and get the result (Peak period applies 4pm - 9pm daily).

Now if you want to PM me, I can run your file and do a what if analysis of your data (up to two years ago) and you can see for your self if you are really benefitting from demand rates compared to say Peak, Off peak, Shoulder or even a standard single rate.

[Johnmollenhauer]

NeilC,

I would suggest that you consider getting out of SA. They are having a lend of all of you.

The DEMAND PENALTY of $0.35/kW/day is ridiculous.

The rate contained in the plan that AGL supplies electricity to my home was….
$0.1124/kW/day ex GST
However all rates have been reversed and increased as of 1 July, and are now……
$0.1385/kW/day ex GST.

In addition to the real rate for DEMAND PENALTY, the alternative plans offered, not only AGL, but other providers also, have considerable and varying kWh rates for both The General usage (Tariff 11) and Tariff 33 controlled load rate.

The rates I am being charged for Tariff 11 and 33 on the plan I am using are considerably lower than all other plans that I have received so far.

The evaluation has to be completed calculating all costs and charges, not making a decision based on what is obviously a ridiculous DEMAND PENALTY CHARGE.

As for having the ability to evaluate offers, rates etc, I have been doing spreadsheets on costings since the early 1990’s, comparing actuals against proposed plans from many energy providers.
My most recent evaluation was on 4 providers, all of whom were supposed to be on the more competitive list, but only one could match AGL. Hence my current position.

As I have said previously, DEMAND PENALTY should be charged actual usage a NORMALISED charge.

Regards,
John Mollenhauer

[NeilC]

@Johnmollenhauer,

Yet you lot on the East Coast are complaining about the cost of electricity.

Lets see how you go when the next few of your power stations close down.

Good luck on your WHINGE about paying too much.

Thanks for allowing me to waste my time on you.

You did not answer my Questions but I did answer your questions.

I gave you my reply based on the only rates I have.

[Johnmollenhauer]

NeilC,
Now, now petal. It’s obvious something has upset you and I apologise if it is something I have said.

However, the thrust of my comments, in all responses has been about the application of a DEMAND PENALTY charge and the method in which it is applied.

And yes, I, as do most others agree that power cost increases across the board are ridiculous and nothing but a money grab by the individual States to pay for their blind stupidity in the pursuit of GREEN ENERGY.
The costs to install Wind Turbines, Solar Panels, Battery Storage and the additional infrastructure to connect all these INADEQUATE POWER GENERATION SYSTEMS, is running into multi billions of dollars.
Reports coming out of Europe confirm that the cost comparisons between conventional gas or coal fired generators and GREEN ENERGY, puts GREEN ENERGY in some cases heading towards three times more costly. But no one wants to talk about that.
However Germany has recommissioned a considerable number of gas fired generators and now preparing to open some of their coal plants.

As for the ridiculous $0.35 plus DEMAND charge rate you and SA have to contend with, it is all to do with intelligence of the powers at be.
The fact that SA has inadequate base load power generation to meet POWER REQUIREMENTS when the SUN GOES DOWN there is a greater reliance on BATTERY STORAGE to do the job and meet that demand. This is no doubt a major contributing factor to the ridiculously high DEMAND CHARGE.
The higher the charge rate the bigger the deterrent for use of power during the DEMAND PERIOD hence a reduction of draw on the INADEQUATE battery storage system.

As for providing Victoria’s power requirements?????

Regards,
John Mollenhauer

[Crusty]

I'm on a demand tariff after I got 6.6 kw of solar added, I didn't ask to be on a demand tariff just had no choice. This isn't China we are not a communist state, choice is freedom of speech. To me the calculation for demand tariff is nothing less than a total rip off. I could be on holiday for 30 days of the month then return on day 31 use power to heat and cook on that day during the time of 4-9 pm and then get charged for the entire month when I never used any power during demand. If that is not a rip off then I don't know what is. Choice choice choice we have none and that is not right.

[NeilC]

@Crusty 

I don't know what state you are in but I suggest that you look at other plans if you wish to stay with AGL

Solar Savers may suit you if you don't want to have a single tariff.

This is a Neighbourhood and as such anyone can answer.

You can decide on a new plan and then change to it using either the App or the Web interface.

Would suggest that you also ring and complain to AGL about the Plan they put you on and you should be able to get that reversed.

By the way even if you did not use any power during the period you still get charged a minimum demand charge of 1kW (that is 2kwh) for each day anyway.

Demand tariff should only be applied to businesses as it was introduced to ENCOURAGED to reduce their usage in demand peak hours.

[Crusty]

I'm in se Qld and I've looked at other plans but they give with one hand
feed in tariff then charge more for supply, demand and normal usage, so
when I calculate let's say my last bill plugging in..excuse the pun...the
different data I am better getting less feed in rate.

As for me being put on a demand rate when my solar and smart meter was
installed with no choice, I spoke to my solar installers today and in Qld a
new build will now have a smart meter with a demand rate provided by the
energy supplier Energex. This is what I was told when I complained about
this rip off demand rate between 4 pm and 9 pm.

I am now seriously looking at storage battery for use during demand rate. I
checked out other retailers and their demand rates are more than AGL. I use
most of my power during the hours of 4 and 9 pm so get hammered by this
demand rate I figure for the investment of a battery I could use my battery
for all my requirements between these hours. Sure it's a hefty investment
and now the government has withdrawn its rebate of up to $4000 for battery
installation. What another crap idea that was, lasted a whole 6 weeks and
was introduced for people struggling with power bills. I spoke to another
solar battery installation company and they told me that the $4000 was for
people earning under 66K those earning from 60 to 180K got $3000. He said
"I can tell you it did nothing for those that were struggling with cost of
living" he said "100% of those that took up the government rebate in our
business were people in the 66-180K range" when the government realised
they had stuffed up they withdrew the offer after 6 weeks. So if I get
batteries now I get nothing and I'm a pensioner using my super to pay for
it and I don't have much of that.

Crusty

[Giff]

Hi @Johnmollenhauer  & @NeilC 

Thank you for your replies. I'm in NSW.

I went back to AGL and they told me that it wasn't them that put me on to Demand pricing, it was Ausgrid.

Ausgrid quickly told me that I just needed to ask AGL to contact Ausgrid and tell them that I wanted to go back to Time-of-Day pricing. 

When I told AGL this.... they did it!!

In simple terms, Demand Pricing for residential is just a rort!!

Cheers

     giff

[Giff]

Hi @Crusty 

I was looking in the Energex Website and found this:

The default network tariff that is applied to your premises after a smart meter is installed is the Residential Transitional Demand Tariff (see table below), therefore retailers may also move you to a demand tariff. However, a time of use energy network tariff is also available - you may wish check with your retailer if they offer a retail time of use energy tariff, if you think a demand-based tariff is not suitable for your household.

https://www.energex.com.au/manage-your-energy/save-money-and-electricity/tariffs/residential-tariffs 

Cheers

       giff