QLD: Tariff 33 vs Tariff 31

[profdraper]

Our current energy bill is suspiciously high in relation to our hot water costs: AGL claims ‘27% of the monthly bill’ while the latest bill breakdown indicates 203.522kWh for HWS only /Tariff 33 Controlled Load.

Given relatively low household use for a retired couple, this seems way too much. HWS is in good working order: tempering valve, thermostat, heating element etc.

I fail to understand why were automatically put on Tariff 33 as part of our EV plan. It is my understanding that Tariff 31 off-peak may be less expensive, and we appear to have the correct conditions to support this, ie:
storage tank HWS; smart meter; dedicated HWS circuit - that’s what our electrician advises.

If this is accurate, then how would we have AGL change that Tariff? We were never asked about this.

[Deepesh_AGL]

Hi profdraper, We can certainly look further into the available tariffs for your site which may suit you better. I will send you a private message shortly to discuss further. Cheers, Deepesh

[profdraper]

Thanks, and WHY is the current HWS component of the bill be so high? Nothing wrong with the electric storage tank unit, no water leaks etc?

Something wrong here, others in our local community are complaining about exactly the same thing … wouldn’t have anything to do with the recent govt rebates & at the same time your prices go up? T33 calculations in particular, fishy.

Next we’ll explore further with our Federal MP.

[profdraper]

Actually, the solution that keeps coming up from various community members because of the same problem is:

they use a HWS timer, these can be simple inserted into the fuse box, or more smart wifi, learn patterns etc.

Whichever, they turn off during peak periods. Seems obvious.

The other element is also that some take the HWS off T33 controlled load and run this on the conventional ToU rates, with timer. Don’t quite understand the full implication with this one yet.

[Lester]

T31 rate is lower than T33, from what I have seen, perhaps by about 4c/kwh . . . but (as tariffs are different through various states, this may vary) T31 comes on for far less time, perhaps 6 - 8 hours off peak, and usually only one block in the early hours of the morning.

T33 might come on far more through the day, possibly off peak and shoulder hours.

As you are just a couple, like myself and my wife, you can probably get through easily on T31.

One thing to check is how size of the HWS might dictate what tariff you go on.

I read that some states (Qld ?) with the two CL options recommend T31 for 250lt or larger HWS capacity, and T33 for 125lt to 250lt, when that smaller system might need heating more through a 24hr period.

What you describe above is more like a hot water diverter / Catch Power type of device, with more control, especially with solar involved.

If you have the HWS separately metered (controlled load 1 or 2), a simple 'dumb' timer is less useful, as controlled load is usually a range of lower rates for items like the HWS, so no real benefit . . . a timer of any kind is more useful where you might have solar, and have on the main circuit, then you can time for solar hours when it will cost you nothing to run on excess power generated.

In winter, you might run on a second timing if needed for an extra couple of hours during the lowest tariff time.

[profdraper]

Thanks for this, appreciated.
Yes, this is pretty much where I’ve gotten to so far, & after far too much discussion with my plumber, sparkie and less so from AGL at all. Yes, T31 rate is less than T33 and runs fewer hours off peak as you say. BUT is not ‘allowed’ in Brisbane by Energex for whatever reason for our 160L HWS, must be over 250L (only one wholesaler here, unlike say five in Melbourne).

And we have no solar. Our retired household would get by easily on T31 & at present we appear to be paying for a whole lot of HWS heating we don’t need or use. 203kWh? 27% of overall bill. Really?

Coincidentally (?!) there seems to have been a rash of these complaints about HWS costs in our community and surrounding suburbs. A number of social media comments /observations here and possible solutions, not to mention that prices have gone up the instant that the govt. began providing $1000 rebates here in Qld. Same old pathology eh? Kill your customers.

Looks like we can’t go anywhere with our present system except be expected to pay for the rather extraordinary HWS bill. Our only option would seem to be to pay several thousand dollars for a good heat pump HWS, then wait five years or so to have it pay its way as ROI. Ditto a solar install for that matter. Still, we may end up choosing to do this rather than be continuously ripped off by power providers.

Thanks again.

[Lester]

I assume the HWS 250lt min is to ensure suitable HW to a standard for an avg family with a smaller size system.

If not allowed to change to T31, a timer is of no use as I assume the T33 rate applies right through any or the timings for that each day ?

Also assuming there is no normal tariff rate through the day (if on TOU ? you may be on single rate) then you don't have an option to switch HW to normal circuit and put a timer on that for a better rate.

The bigger issue for you is what's going on with that 203 kwh / 27% of the bill, if this is way over for you.

Is that for a month or quarter ?

I'm guessing a month ??

For comparison, our 250lt HWS last quarterly bill used about 609kwh, which is around 50% of our overall bill KWH usage.

We have decent solar which covers all our daytime usage though, which is reasonably significant, plus we have our son visit from interstate regularly and charge his EV on a charger here (took that out of the figures).

Our $ value for the HWS was only $112 or $1.25 a day, which is not unlivable.

Still, I can get that off the bill in the main, just need to get that on my regular circuit, and not the one CL option we have here in SA (comes on during shoulder day and off peak), and put a timer on it for solar hours, or dead of winter on EV rate if needed.

It's a shame power is so complex now, most don't have the time or desire to try and work through this, nor should we need to in this country.

We are really being let down terribly by the powers that be.

[profdraper]

Thanks for this.

Yes, we’re on an EV plan & ToU; T33 runs all day AFAIK.

Still no clarification about this from AGL.

The 27% 203kwh is for us as a retired couple & seems extraordinary given our low usage with a few showers & a bit of handwashing. Otherwise other devices like the dishwasher & the washing machine use cold water and run on their timers overnight, off-peak.

And so this is a single line expense on T33, nothing else on ToU has any effect on that, incl EV charging one a fortnight, heatpump dryer, dishwasher etc all on timers between 12pm-6am /8c per kWh.

Makes no sense, HSW is the second highest line item next to Shoulder rates which is most of the time, 7am-4pm weekdays, all weekend. Even the vastly overpriced peak period billing 4pm-8pm is less expensive than the HWS & T33 tariff.

[Lester]

When you get solar and possibly a battery you can switch to doing all your appliance running to be done during the day, probably in good summer sunshine between say 0900 and 1600, which will be totally free 🙂

CL HWS is useless to us now, and would be for you too, or as per other thread, get onto normal circuit and time for either free solar time, or EV night saver time if required dead of winter.