Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

[Malster]

So recently anyone with a Controlled Load (CL1 or CL2) service was advised that they were changing the timings to move some of the CL during the day when solar is abundant.  Makes logical and environmental sense.

What they failed to tell us is that the CL will be using your own solar, but they will still charge you full-rate for your CL service.

In my case, where my HWS dissipates approx 4800kW I can observe the following:

Solar production :~3kW

Approx 500W used by house

Leaves 2.5kW exported.

CL activates for 10 min (11:00am)

Now importing 2.4kW 

Thus i am only drawing down 2.4kW from the grid..

Actual grid consumption for that 10min:

2400 / (60min/10) = 400Wh

What did my raw data from smart meter say?  931Wh for CL usage.

So I got billed for all the CL1 usage, even though it came from my own solar.

If you have your own monitoring as I do (2 independent systems), you might want to check what is happening with your CL service.

[Alt]

My issue is that I'm still on the government feed in tariff of 44 cents

so using my on solar is actually costing me 45.5 c / kwh during the day…when if the smart meter was programmed for night time,,, it would cost me 22 c/kwh.

I understand that there trying to absorb the daytime solar…but I signed up to the government deal to help with my bills, not to eventually cost me more money because of network issues.

only thought I have is that I have a 3 phase system and the HWS is on red phase…

If I make sure my solar is on another phase, will that solve my problem?

[Lester]

@Alt I can see that's a real issue for you . . . it'll cost a little, but a sparky can put a simple analogue timer on the HWS circuit, you can set for whatever night hours you like.

It cost me $380, but the sparky was friend of a friend, so maybe shop around a bit.

This is the one we had put in . . .

https://www.alstra.com.au/assets/full/412794.jpg?20220330203413 

Very cheap, easy to programme, can turn it on, off, or on timer settings, and you can have as many time blocks as desired.

[Wisha]

A nightime only timer wont help, as controlled load doesn't always come on at night.
If Controlled load has ran during the day, and grid demand is high over night, then controlled load wont be switched on at night.

You dont even need to pay for a timer, you can simply request your retailer (ie AGL) only engages Controlled load at night.... but ....you will end up with cold water. 
I know this, because this is what happens to us. Controlled load didnt come on for 3 days.

This also means an increased exposure to Legionella... but clearly the goose who rolled this out doesn't care....until someone dies, or permanently injured...and then maybe someone will have a look at it.

Any updates Syed / AGL?

[Alt]

All fixed
Installed din rail mounted wifi, programmable, relay that is now programmed
to only operate during night..
Winter usage is between 9 to 12 kWh to heat system to thermostat setting…
Haven’t ran out of hot water.

[SYED_AGL]

Hi @Wisha 

Thanks for reaching out.

Just to clarify, the controlled load (CL) times and consumption patterns are determined by your energy distributor, not by AGL. They also manage the tariff structure and data collection process.

Out of curiosity, have you ever had a chance to discuss this setup with your electrician? They might be able to provide some insights or suggestions on how to manage your usage more efficiently — especially if you’re finding that most of the consumption happens during the day, leaving limited supply for the night.

SYED 

[NeilC]

Hi all,

There seems to be some confusion here @Lester stated night time rate but also referred to the fact that it can have multiple setup times.

To use the TIMER device as stated by Lester you need to have it connected to your Main Power Supply not to your controlled load circuit.

This means you can now set this to Shoulder Load / Off Peak load etc etc.

So, say you have a large household where you have people that finish work at 23:00 get home at 00:00 and have a long shower (maybe they should have shorter showers anyway), then you have people that get up at 06:00 have a shower (same thing about shorter showers) and then go to work.

Now taking into consideration Shoulder Rates (10:00 till 15:00) you would set your timer to heat the hot water from 10:05 up to 15:00 to get the maximum benefit. But you my need a boost after the the midnight crowd to heat the water for the morning lot, so you would set the timer to also boost from 02:00 till 04:00.

Don't forget that if you have Daylight times or have had a power failure you have to RESET the timer to the current time.

There is a post on the Neighbourhood (ie this one), that appears to state that if you have controlled load set to Shoulder Load Times and heat your hot water during this times you will use your solar to heat the water but get charged for the usage at the same time??.

This post has been going for some time and THERE IS NOTHING STATED AT THIS TIME that this is correct or incorrect, the claimant has stated many things but nothing has bee substantiated so far.

Personally, many years ago I got a FREE HEAT PUMP from the Government, when I got it installed asked the installer to swap the hot water from the controlled load circuit to the MAIN circuit as it has an inbuilt timer.

As I have solar panels, basically I have not paid for hot water since installing this unit, of course this is not always true as on some overcast days I do not generate the required 1kw each hour that the heat pump requires??

[Lester]

Yes, for @Alt his solar means he will probably be far better off having the HWS put onto normal circuit, timed for free solar hours, and maybe back up short half hour 'top off' in some lower tariff off peak, usually between 0000 and 0600.

In winter with low solar production, this would likely be better during the 'now usually' cheapest time of day with excess solar soak during daytime shoulder hours, particularly for states like SA with excess daytime solar in the grid between 1000 and 1600.

As it turns out, they solved theirs with some sort of programmable relay device ?

The Green Catch or Catch Power devices (or others that work same) are definitely the best solution for people with solar, use absolutely every scrap of excess solar for use with the HWS, before sending anything to the grid.

A bit more costly, but long term a lot less effort (nil) required to constantly think about the HW during changing seasons.

@Wisha situation is different, and as @SYED_AGL said, every DSPN is going to have different times for normal circuit, CL, and different rates, which means one persons solution can be very different to anothers.

Edit, I changed my HWS to normal circuit late last mid Dec, after getting onto solar late 2023 (should have been done from the start), and just timed to get 8c power 0000-0600, we don't need any top off for the two of us.

When it was on CL it would do the big heat during shoulder, usually between 1000 and 1400, and a very minor one 1130-0530 on the old CL timings and costs, which would be about $1.40 a day . . . now it's between 30c and 40c.

As summer approaches, I will time for the best 2 hours of solar production daily and it should cost us almost zero . . . almost, as the timer will also cover maybe 0200-0300, so we can get a little top off in case the weather is poor.

[nobita89]

Hi, I just noticed the same discrepancy - recently I installed a battery and have looked at the reporting app by 1) the battery system 2)the solar system and 3) the AGL metering report.

Hi guys, not sure if anyone has checked before but i was looking at what was reported in the esy battery monitoring app vs the AGL interface and noticed some big difference

For e.g on Saturday 11 oct, looking in the esy app, i see almost no electricity is drawn from the grid see ss - import and battery SOC shown. But in the hourly report in AGL i see see for the day - i bought 10.2 kwh from grid - which in esy the amount should actually be close to 0 as all i am using is from the battery itself (import as a metric to indicate amount bought from grid - u see no lines through the day - only a bit of tiny surge 120-170W) - selecting 11.00am as an example: i see usage of 3.24 kwh but it is not showing as import in the esy app.

Which one is the source of truth?

I do however see the load surged at 11am when I turned on the metric Load (how much kwh the house is using at any given time - which coincide with the charge in AGL) Why I know this is my CL - i just did some calculation total cost/ kwh and find that works out to be 17c which is the same as my CL cost.

I am keen to understand where this is heading because if this is what @Malster  has been sharing this is opening a big can of worms that AGL has been overcharging customers on CL and having solar systems in place for years. 

have we got any update on this thing from ombudsman or the investigation team?

 

 

 

[Lester]

@nobita89 I think you need to get your solar / battery people back to make sure it's all set up right, and metering is finalised, working with your DNSP / retailer.

You say you recently installed a battery, so you already had solar ?

This all needs to be compatible and correctly commissioned.

[Malster]

Hi Nobita89,

  Well the state of play is;

NSW Obudsman is a toothless tiger, has no power to tell energy retailers how to bill, so wiped their hands of it.  
AGL won't and can't admit fault (although one CS girl did admit she can see the issue and understand it), but as she has been told to shut-up, it won't progress further. 

AGL ombudsman team are also useless as they are only guided by customer service teams , not engineering teams.   AGL appears to be devoid of anyone technical or engineers, or anyone who understands electron flow, even when presented with clear graphs and evidence. 

AGL pass the buck to Endeavour as the issue, but don't go to bat for us, even through they are being presented with faulty data from Endeavour. They are suppose to be our advocate.

AGL happily continue to bill unfairly

AGL pay for solar FIT when not required, so obviously, the false billing us overriding little FIT is over payment.

Next step is to get a draft report from the meter supplier/service technicians as they do understand the issue. and class action ?

Everyone (ALL AGL customers) with Solar, Controlled Load and a Intellihub meter is affected.  Just look at your weekend CL1 activations as they occur in daylight hours and you will see Full Rate CL billing even though you are providing the energy via your solar.