Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

[Malster]

So recently anyone with a Controlled Load (CL1 or CL2) service was advised that they were changing the timings to move some of the CL during the day when solar is abundant.  Makes logical and environmental sense.

What they failed to tell us is that the CL will be using your own solar, but they will still charge you full-rate for your CL service.

In my case, where my HWS dissipates approx 4800kW I can observe the following:

Solar production :~3kW

Approx 500W used by house

Leaves 2.5kW exported.

CL activates for 10 min (11:00am)

Now importing 2.4kW 

Thus i am only drawing down 2.4kW from the grid..

Actual grid consumption for that 10min:

2400 / (60min/10) = 400Wh

What did my raw data from smart meter say?  931Wh for CL usage.

So I got billed for all the CL1 usage, even though it came from my own solar.

If you have your own monitoring as I do (2 independent systems), you might want to check what is happening with your CL service.

[malster181]

Here you go, just occurred..

Red is total household use (CL1 and general),

Blue is solar,

Gold is import..
So you can clearly see that I am only importing 2.5kW from the grid for the period 12:50-12:58 (The big peak).    

Closer analysis of the just that peak...

excuse rounding errors as the monitoring software only has 2 decimals..

Total household consumption was ~740WHr. 

Base load (without CL1 was ~70WHr so was can say that the CL1 load was 740 - 70 = ~670WHr  <**
Import for that same period was 400WHr
So the rest came from my solar (~390WHr)

Now I have to wait 24-28 hrs for AGL to upload the raw data.  Then we will see what is reflected on the raw data when it is available.

[NeilC]

@malster181 @Malster 

Hi, just been reading this 5 page post.

First query is why have you changed your log in name today?

Next query is that you seem to have single smart meter.

With a single smart meter it can have up to three Controlled Load Meters with up to three outputs (one for each load) each one of these can supply up to 30Amp loads

I have a Digital Smart Meter with one controlled load that is not connected, as my hot water service has a timer built into it.

Now a smart meter reads the amount of power drawn into it and simultaneously reads the amount of power exported from it.

Now the controlled load switch is below the export / import section of the smart meter and if the switch is on then it should consume the power from your solar system (if available) before taking import from the grid.

How about you send me a sample for a few complete days from the download file available from the agl site via a personal message

That will enable me to have a look at your data.

Please also note that the information you are receiving from AGL is not correct, if you can get the data from your supplier you will see that your meter is set for 5 minute data not 30 minute data as supplied from AGL.

The data supplied by your supplier is always EST (eastern standard time) but the data supplied by AGL (your retailer) is in your current time zone.

Unless you are in Queensland you would have noticed this as its clock is not always showing your correct local time.

As to the data you are supplying from your Frontius system I would not rely on it as it is no where accurate.

[Lester]

@malster181 @Malster 

Here you go, just occurred..

Red is total household use (CL1 and general),

Blue is solar,

Gold is import..
So you can clearly see that I am only importing 2.5kW from the grid for the period 12:50-12:58 (The big peak).

__________________

That looks like the HWS cutting in approx 1250 - 1258, though 8 minutes seems far (far) too short for a HWS cycle.

You app is recording the situation correctly with usage and export over solar production, but only if on the same circuit . . . that is if your app reads meterage the same as mine (SolarEdge).

(Or do you have another item that can use that much in the home, in that bif period, approx 5kw ?)

Mine reads like that now, since we had the HWS wired into the normal usage circuit.

This app reading for a typical winter day shows usage if we don't boost on nice solar days for an hour or so . . .

We used around 7kwh for hw, but timed for 0130 - 0530 so only at a special 8c rate / kwh.

You can see in the graph above we boosted this day, and the next day the usage was much lower (graph below), about 3kwh all up.

Another boost done below to reduce the next days cost . . .

Now, BEFORE we put the HWS on the timer on the normal circuit, and it was on CL separate metering, our typical days readings looked like this . . .

There is NO CL obvious reading on the above, but I think it was there is dribbles of usage through shoulder (somehow controlled / limited ?), which is our cheapest normal and CL blocks of intervals here in SA, must be set so by our DNSP (SAPN).

My normal usage and CL usage amounts would align with AGLs figures daily.

So . . . I'm not totally convinced your HWS is on CL, unless you use very little HW (but still, 8 minutes ?), or there is something else on your normal circuit is causing that brief 8 minute, 5kw spike.

I went back to your original post, trying to see what the situation was / is . . .

For example, is this a new thing on a previously 'working fine' or normal scenario ?

Or is it a case of new solar, or new metering, any other changes to plan etc ?

[Malster]

Lester,

  AGL/Endeavour will turn on and off the CL1 when there is high solar in the network, NOT just at the usual 11pm-6am...     As explained in my original 1st post.

This new protocol is to increase drain on the network to use the excess solar production, otherwise they will have to turn of people inverters to protect the network, and it makes sense to use CL..

I am all for the new protocol, but they can not charge people for using their own power..!!

Email from AGL...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
At AGL we’re always exploring ways to do things better. You have a controlled load circuit in your home which means electricity is supplied to one or more appliances (e.g. an electric hot water system) on a separate circuit from your main power supply. These types of appliances don’t need constant power, so a controlled load circuit is only switched on for a few hours each day

With an increase in solar energy on the grid, over the coming months we will be adjusting the timing of your controlled load circuit to shift more load from overnight into the middle of the day. Beyond this change, the exact hours of operation may still vary from time to time as they currently do.

This change will not have any impact on your electricity rates.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Malster]

NeilC,

    First query is why have you changed your log in name today?   > Not really relevant to the discussion, or your business really, however I'll explain for transparency.  I have and AGL-Account login, and an AGL-Neighbourhood login, but I hadn't realised I was in AGL-Account before I came to here in a different Brave Tab, and it automagically logged me in here with the wrong one as AGL share the same cookies across the whole site (poor IT design)..  

Next query is that you seem to have single smart meter. > Yup..  As I have said all along...

Rest of your comments are noted.  TZ are the same, I am fully aware of the 5min/30min, hence my samples are over an hour period.

Unless you work for Endeavour or SGL, I am not sending you the raw data.  I have already analysed it and seen the evidence.  Here is a brief snapshot for you, as sent to AGL..

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi,
    I have a question in regard to the new system on Controlled Load timing..
Since you are now using my solar when available for my CL1, do I get credit for the solar my CL1 is using or are you still going to slug me for the full night CL1 rate?
For instance, if my solar is currently providing 3kW and the HWS is 4.8kW, then I should only be billed for 1.8kW that was taken from the grid, but I don't see this reflected in the raw meter data.
So it seems within my meter I am exporting, importing at the same time?  Not possible... 
Examples of 5th April 2025 (10am - 12noon), monitored by 2 different systems;

I only took from the grid 0.6 - 0.7kWh for the 2 hour period. 
Exported 2.8kWh
Consumed directly 2.7kWh of my own solar. 
CL1 was only on for approx 10min.

However the raw meter data shows that you bill  for usage of my own solar within my meter/fuse box, not just what I took from the grid.  So your billing tap point is incorrect and needs to be changed to account for what I am putting into my own CL1.   It is a NET meter, so this should be easily fixed.

[Lester]

@Malster yes our CL was moved from old J tariff off peak hours (2330-0530 I think it was) to shoulder (1000-1500) here too when we got the solar and digital meters.

Yes, done like this to not waste renewables (also boosts corporate profits !), so using as much as possible during solar soak is an obvious aim of the powers that be.

Are I posted elsewhere we had 2 meters, normal usage and one for CL, it seemed SAPN did this and it seems more easy to monitor.

Though I'm sure I have read info about smart meters that say they can monitor regular usage, solar, and CL all in the one unit.

The biggest issue here in we are dealing with so many different DNSPs across OZ, all get different DMOs from the AER, each state / regions have different tariffs (single, tou, demand, other like special solar soak low tariff), supply charges, meter brands, metering types, metering methods.

Hard to cut to the facts when your situation there is totally foreign to others here.

If that app is recording CL in with your regular usage during solar soak (one meter), then it shows right in your chart.

You'll have to check the CL usage and regular usage figures from AGL to know if it's being allotted to the right intervals and tariff.

Before I changed my HWS from CL to normal circuit, I too was paying for CL shoulder usage for the HW during the day, and that was correct.

If you are not happy with that, you must get the HWS off CL and onto the normal circuit, use a simple timer for heating the HW during solar soak in summer and shoulder, set it for winter and shoulder to whatever your cheapest time of normal usage might be . . . you just don't want the HWS to come on and peak through what you're producing at all if possible.

Or get something more sophisticated like a Catch Power unit fitted same time which uses ANY excess solar production through the entire year, and directs it to your HW heating before exporting, then allows to heat more at cheapest tariff if it needs topping off (winter etc).

My change of HW to normal circuit and simple timer cost $380, but he's a known sparky that looks after us.

Catch power units are (were when I was looking a year ago) around $1000, install about $300.

But you have to get off your CL to make this work, and do the sums o work out if you are getting the benefits of changing.

You have had no more luck with escalated support ?

Sorry if this was mentioned in the 5 pages, can't read them all right now.

Your last post overlapping mine . . .

"So it seems within my meter I am exporting, importing at the same time?  Not possible... "

If it's the same as here, and I'm sure CL would be, then yes, it is very possible.

If your CL is coming on during the day (as it is, and is supposed to), that is being charged as a totally separate usage.

Separate to your normal usage and solar feed in.

Your meter obviously has the ability to do all the processes for billing in the correct interval and tariff.

I'm struggling to know why you're drawing around 5kwh for just 8 - 10 mins though.

Is your HWS rated 5kw ??

Ours is a regular one element 3.6kw storage Rheem, is your continuous or something ?

Possibly continuous as that could be a 10 min shower or something.

Ours typically comes on for an hour / hour and a half.

[Malster]

Is your HWS rated 5kw ??  YES 4800W depends of course on Grid voltage at the time so there is small variations.

[Lester]

Approx 10 min running time, how often does this occur a day, and is it only in solar soak hours ?

That is a really low running time, unless you are literally using a bucket of HW a day, and often HW has to travel a long way from one side of a home to the other (ours is close to bathroom but far from kitchen).

Even then, if not using any HW at all, 10 mins is probably less than you should be using for just keeping it hot each day.

Is HW a large contributor to your power bills ?

[Malster]

Lester,

Approx 10 min running time, how often does this occur a day, and is it only in solar soak hours ? 

> Solar soak annd the normal overnight.

That is a really low running time, unless you are literally using a bucket of HW a day, and often HW has to travel a long way from one side of a home to the other (ours is close to bathroom but far from kitchen). 

>  Don't assume water was fully heated, it's just a quick burst of CL1 as decided by AGL (Really Endeavour but AGL want to claim the gory, they might as well cop the bad side too)  whenever they feel the network needs a bit extra load.

[Lester]

Ok, that must be coming on numerous times a day, even if using minimal water.

While ours was mostly showing up in small uses during solar soak (cheapest CL time of day), I did used to see a couple of very tiny bursts in old 2330 - 0530 off peak (2nd cheapest tou), but it was so brief, like 0.0004 or such and might be lucky if a couple of cents.

Your Endeavour DNSP generally does what's best for consumer as to what tariff time they put CL to.

I think you will find in your data that you are being charged on the CL tariff whenever it comes on during the day, as it is tallied totally separate to normal usage and solar feed in.

It's just that your app shows it all lumped together with the one meter.

In your figures there, you are being charged to CL for that import at about 2.5kw for about 8 - 10 mins, so that is probably going to show up as around 0.333 to 0.4166 of a Kwh in you data for that block of usage.

Check to see if it so.