Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

[Malster]

So recently anyone with a Controlled Load (CL1 or CL2) service was advised that they were changing the timings to move some of the CL during the day when solar is abundant.  Makes logical and environmental sense.

What they failed to tell us is that the CL will be using your own solar, but they will still charge you full-rate for your CL service.

In my case, where my HWS dissipates approx 4800kW I can observe the following:

Solar production :~3kW

Approx 500W used by house

Leaves 2.5kW exported.

CL activates for 10 min (11:00am)

Now importing 2.4kW 

Thus i am only drawing down 2.4kW from the grid..

Actual grid consumption for that 10min:

2400 / (60min/10) = 400Wh

What did my raw data from smart meter say?  931Wh for CL usage.

So I got billed for all the CL1 usage, even though it came from my own solar.

If you have your own monitoring as I do (2 independent systems), you might want to check what is happening with your CL service.

[Caban]

@Malster 

How can you track individual electrons and where they end up?

The contract you have is that when the power moves through your meter into the grid, you have then sold it, and are paid for that power at the contracted rate. When you use power it travels from the grid into your load. There is also an agreed price for that power, which you pay.

What I am saying is that when the power goes into the grid it is no longer your power, it is the property of the utility company. If you want to stop this happening the easiest way it to get rid of your CL supply. Then just turn on the HWS load when the supply is at off peak rates. If you time this correctly it will save you money. 

The other thing to consider is that at times of high use the wholesale price can spike. The contract you have fixes the price you pay at those times, even though the supplier may be paying a lot more for that energy. How would you feel if this spiked cost was passed on to you?

The AGL Reps are being polite to you but your complaint has no merit. If you take it to the Ombudsman they will tell you the same thing. 

Let me explain it this way. If you owned a business selling cars and a local hire care company bought some of your cars. Then you needed to hire a car and they supplied one of the cars they just bought from you, would they let you have that car for free as it used to be your car? No, You would have to pay the contract price.

[Malster]

Caban,

  Your analogy is not quite right.  The power never makes it out to the grid.

I can track the flow as I measure Solar power, Grid power and general usage power.

Assume the following for a particular point in time;

General usage:  1000W

Solar Generation: 6000W

HWS CL1 Usage: 5000W

Grid Draw:  0W

You can see that from the grid (total draw) is 0 kW.

So.. extrapolated..

1000WGUW+5000WCL1W= 6000W Total

6000Total - 6000WSolar = 0W

Thus 100% of the solar is covered the energy usage...

Yet, AGL will count the power going to the HWS (as it's virtual metering, not a physically separate meter)  for the 5kW going to the HWS and bill you that amount...  Even though grid draw was 0W

That is fraud, billing customers for power they are NOT drawing from the grid...  Billing customers for using their own power..   

Malster

[Caban]

@Malster 

The Grid is on the other side of your meter. So when the power is exported it is in the Grid. When you import power into your CL Meter it is coming from the Grid, which once again is on the the other side of your meter.

So yes, you are selling power to and from the Grid as per your contract.

If you want to heat your water from your own excess solar then do that transfer on your side of the meter. This can be done by getting rid of the CL circuit, and not paying daily charges for that, and connecting the HWS to your main circuit. Then turning on your HWS will take your own power instead of it being exported to the Grid. 

Just because you do not understand how this system works does not make it fraud.

[Caban]

@Malster 

Your figures are actually inaccurate.

MAIN CIRCUIT

Solar Generation: 6000W

General usage: 1000W

Export to Grid: 5000W (Paid to you according to your FiT)

CL1 CIRCUIT

HWS CL1 Usage: 5000W

Grid Draw: 5000W (Charged at the CL1 Contract Rate)

This is how the system operates.

[Malster]

 I am a IT and electronics tech with just a few years experience...

You are wrong, else they wouldn't admitted something is wrong have opened a case..

What you are talking about it the old system when we had 2 or 3 meters, and it was called Gross Metering.  You get billed for usage, credited solar and settled the difference. 

These days we have NETT metering when you only pay for what you take from the grid.   So you can power your complete home now off your own solar (daytime obviously), draw nothing from the grid and there is no settlement.

If I or anyone is NOT drawing from the grid (I am giving the simplest explanation) then of course they should not pay for usage.  

I draw a diagram for those not quite understanding the situation.

Or, another simpler way to look at it, what if I turned off my Grid connection (assuming the anti-island function disabled on my inverter), and then the same scenario I gave you was in happening....;

5kW used by my CL1, coming solely from my solar and grid is off,  I will be billed for CL1 usage as my meter reads what was supplied out the CL1 terminals of the meter, NOT what came from the grid...  Maybe you can understand it that way?   It's WRONG!...

[Caban]

SNAP

I too have a employment history of 4 decades of Electronic Engineering.

You are mixing Apples and Oranges here. The old Gross Metering Systems are long gone. They were very generous to encourage people to install systems. I missed out on that little nugget as I was working overseas when they were offered. In that system your feed in would subtract from your usage, so your Feed in was equal to the energy cost.

The Nett system has that on different rates. I used to have single rate and CL1. Then I moved to TOU there were the various rates. Using a spreadsheet I worked out the amount of CL1 I needed to consume to offset the daily charge, so I got rid of my CL1. When I need a SHWS Boost I do that on Off Peak times. My Solar FiT reduces my Daily Charge costs.

If you have an engineering background I suggest you draw a Block Diagram. You have two (2) systems, both connected to the Grid. System 1 has a dual direction meter connected to your load and the solar panels. The Solar panels will supply the load, any excess will then feed back through the meter into the grid. The Input direction will meter the power and log it at depending on the time it is used. There is also metering for power in the opposite direction, this is metered as your Solar Output to the Grid.

The System 2 has a meter which is also connected to the Grid and feeding your HWS heater. It has circuitry which can connect this load when the supply company selects. The minimum duration is set by the terms of the rate. 

These two systems are on the same bill but are sort of independent of each other.  When the load is turned on it will draw power from the Grid. This system is not connected to your Solar Panels, they are in the other system.

If you get rid of the CL1 System and integrate your HWS into the main system, then you can use the Solar to directly supply it without it being exported to the grid.

One more point, just because your complaint has been accepted does not mean your accusations are correct. In this instance I think you will be disappointed. 

[Caban]

I forget to answer what happens if you turn off the mains and you can keep the inverter working. Your Solar would supply the house load. However it would NOT be able to supply your HWS as that is on a separate system.

My House used to be like that too. My System will keep operating during a Grid Failure. When my SHWS was om the CL1 I could not power it from my own solar. Now it is on the main system I can.

[Malster]

There is NO SEPERATE circuit now, just one grid connection to the meter, and the meter splits it to 3 terminals, and has 3 virtual meters monitoring those terminals.  The CL1 comes from the common NETT metering point in the meter..

The solar CAN and WILL power the CL1 (if you have enough panels) as I have proved in my monitoring...

 

By the way, the meter also counts the solar in, even though it is not being sent to the grid, which is easily explained in the last of the above diagrams show..   

[Caban]

@Malster 

I have searched for the source of the diagram you have posted above, with no success. Can you supply the details?

It should be noted that there are obvious errors. One example, the inputs and outputs have been reversed in the lower diagram.

It does seem strange that you have a different contract to what is available to most people because of the meter you have installed. I have only seen different rates offered for Smart Meters, but (AFAIK) all those have the CL independent of the main supply regardless of the meter being separate or integrated. 

Can you show some data to demonstrate the "Fraud" you allege.

The data should show that when the CL1 switches on your Solar Exports drop by the same amount as the CL1 draws. This would demonstrate that they are stealing your power. If the data shows that the Solar Export continues but the CL1 imports a similar amount this would be in line with the way other systems operate.

[Malster]

Caban,

  I have searched for the source of the diagram you have posted above, with no success. Can you supply the details?  > I drew it, sorry not copyrighted yet. 

"It should be noted that there are obvious errors. One example, the inputs and outputs have been reversed in the lower diagram."     > Nope, all correct, not sure what are you talking about?  Green is in to the meter from inverter and red and blue go to loads.   Pretty simple I thought?   Other 2 are correct also.. so error maybe on your understanding.

It does seem strange that you have a different contract to what is available to most people because of the meter you have installed. I have only seen different rates offered for Smart Meters, but (AFAIK) all those have the CL independent of the main supply regardless of the meter being separate or integrated.  > It is a smart meter, but not on TOU, new meters that maybe you haven't seen yet, fairly new, 18 months or so..  

Can you show some data to demonstrate the "Fraud" you allege.  >   I'll post shortly..  So you get the issue.. 

This would demonstrate that they are stealing your power.   >   I'll post shortly..  So you get the issue..