Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

[runbren]

Hi All,

I don't understand why we are being charged the Demand Charge rate for the worst day for the billing period across the entire period.

Doesn't it make more sense to apply that on a daily basis?

For example, if someone turns on the kettle, toaster and then a heater on one of the days of my billing period, I get charged as if I did that everyday.

My demand on the power grid was only applicable on that one day, so it makes sense to do this on a daily basis.

[Whychange]

My understanding of demand tariff is

if I turn on my 8kw load once per billing period, the instant current draw may be 6 times the continuous load, it’s running load for a 30 minute period would be 8 kw, for an hour it would be 16kw. 
there the maximum demand for that billing period would be 16x0.25x 31 days $124

the supply charge

would be $1.31x31=$40.61

and the usage for the month 

would be 16x 0.22= $3.52

total for the month would be

$3.52+$40.61+$124. 

is this a correct assumption or where have I gone wrong☹️🤔

[Johnmollenhauer]

I do not understand your mode of calculation.

My bill is made up with the following charges.

1. General usage charge.
A reading taken from the meter for the month. As an example —
330 kWh x $0.1772/kWh. = $58.48

2. Demand charge.
A charge calculated using the highest usage rate of any half hour period during the nominated critical usage time frame of 16:00 and 21:00
Once this max usage figure is identified during that month, that figure is used to calculate the DEMAND CHARGE for that month.
Using the 8kWh figure the calculation is as you have indicated.
Which is —
8 x 2 to bring the figure to an hourly use, then apply the rate per kWh $0.1124 and apply the number of days for that month.
8 x 2 x $0.1124 x 30 = $53.95

3. Supply Charge.
A daily charge for ???
30 days x $1.0156 = $30.47

For the General Usage Charge, the monthly bill is -
1. $58.48
2. $53.95
3. $30.47

Total: $143.22

This is providing one can keep the overall general usage to a minimum and the peak usage during PEAK DEMAND TIME below 8kWh over the half hour.
However during the upcoming warm period, remembering that DINNER has to be prepared, that will be an impossible dream.

With the advent of the so-called SMART METER there is no reason the public should be penalised for the month, when high usage may only happen for less than 50% of the month.
Charges can be set accordingly !! It ain’t ROCKET SCIENCE


Regards,
John Mollenhauer

[Pstof]

Extortion is what demand tariff is. Australians especially in SA should demand our government step in an address the theft 

[Pstof]

Oh please stop the gaslighting AGL reps, your  rationalisations are nonsense. DT is a  Royal Commission and ACCC worthy double dipping fees for no energy or service for that matter extortion. You have without notice shifted us to a peak period tariff so we will already be paying a penalty rate for using energy during high demand periods. This would have been enough for people to be mindful of thier use and adapted during the high demand periods. So that defence is a nonsense. The DT is a cash grab.  You did not advise that if we did not opt out there would be a new extra charge  resulting in a further penalty on top of a peak rate penalty re your hidden penalty the DT. Evidenced by you telling us in an email AFTER you put in your cash grabber in. $49 a month an  increase of  $150 quarterly delightful on top of peak rate periods peneltys that are active the vast majority of a 24hr period. Lucky us our rate is reduced when we are sleeping good job. We can all go without lights, t h e vulnerable will go without heating or cooling and we can all grab our torches to cook after on a gas camp ovens or eat at 2am and stumble around our homes in the dark when we get home from work. Red Cross  do welfare checks on the vulnerable during deep winter and mid summer because they can't manage now this will be the straw for a lot of people. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Corporate greed that's all it is. If you were genuine about the nonsense your spinning you would have been transparent and upfront with your customers about your new ADDED  charge before !! you put your punitive penalty machine in you know at the point we're we had a consumer choice. 

[Johnmollenhauer]

My contract has the DEMAND CHARGE feature, a charge that is a money grab.
And here is why…
In one month I was away from home, however returned home for one night, a meal was prepared etc, during the 16:00 to 21:00 DEMAND PERIOD.
That month I was charged - the highest usage rate for a half hour period in 16:00/21:00 time frame, this was multiplied by 2, multiplied by the penalty rate ($0.1124/kWh), then multiplied by the number of days in the month. The calc is…..
As an example Highest half hour usage figure: 2.16 kWh
2.16 X 2 X $0.1124 X 30 = $14.57 for the month.
Yes the PENALTY is for the month even though the DEMAND usage was for one night only of that month.

Each and every month has this same type of PENALTY applied based on the highest usage for any half hour in that 16:00/21:00 time slot.

It is impossible to understand why providers are unable to charge for actual usage at a higher rate during the PEAK DEMAND PERIOD.
With these so-called SMART METRES the number of kWh used are recorded every 15 minutes, as I was advised by the AGL Support Team.

Another issue that I am unable to resolve and have the Support Team confirm is -
The usage figures for each half hour, as recorded and shown in the ‘USAGE’ data page of the App is ‘after the fact’ data.
Common sense tells me that, for example, kWh used between 15:30 and 16:00 would be recorded at 16:00 time slot. However I have not been able to get this confirmed. All I get is that data is recorded every 15 minutes and it is correct.

The reason for my concern is that there is an impact on what figures are used for the calculation of the PEAK DEMAND PENALTY.
To this end I watch closely as to timing of power usage at the start and finish of the 16:00/21:00 period, for I have noticed anomalies in the recorded data compared to power I thought I had used.



Regards,
John Mollenhauer

[Billy1951]

So...has anyone gone to the Electricity Ombudsman about this? I will print this topic out and send it to them. 

I just feel that we are paying for something we are not receiving. 

It's like going to woolworths and spending $100 in one shop and then being charged $100 every time we go back to shop. 

I am sure consumer affairs would have something to say about it as well. 

Anyway I will see where it ends up. 

[Billy1951]

this actually is not solved

[NeilC]

Hi all,

I cannot be bothered reading every reply in this post.

Demand Tariff was introduced to encourage NON RESIDENTIAL users to save electricity.

Now if you read the guff it states the MINIMUM RATE is 1kWh.

So if you go on holidays for 3 months and turned off the power you will still get charged your supply charge and 90 days off demand Tariff.

AGL is also switching users to 5 MINUTE intervals. So that means your demand tariff is the highest 5 MINUTE rate times by 12 (to give a kWh).

Now AGL does not inform you of that either.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THE TARIFF THAT AGL OFFERS YOU and you should check to see if you can get a better rate and change to that as quick as possible.

I have access to my 5min Rate and my 30min Rate and can tell you that I would never go near demand rate and my average daily rate for 2019 to to 2023 is about 5.375 kWh a day.

My housemate put the Air Fryer and the Toaster on the other day, tripped the breaker and that 5min reading would have ended up with us paying a 3.12kWh DEMAND TAX for the month (if  we were stupid enough to accept the plan)

[Johnmollenhauer]

Giff, your mode of calculation appears to be correct and aligns with the way AGL have been charging me since July 2022.

However your usage of 0.133kWh for the half hour diminishes the actual cost due to usage.

 I have closely monitored power consumption during the DEMAND PERIOD, 16:00 thru 21:00 over the past since the installation of the SMART METER.

Your 0.133kWh figure only covers for example a refrigerator, freezer, TV, and a few lights.

When the evening meal is being prepared the usage can jump to 1.1 kWh for the half hour, or even higher, dependant on the number of cooktop rings are being used and then possibly the oven.

A more realistic calc is   0.95kWh (for 30 mins) * 2 (consumption for 1 hour)* 0.25(c) * 30 days = $14.25 based on 25 cents/kW/day. (not sure where you got the rate of 0.25 cents from, current 1st July rate is 15.235 cents/kW/day)

Generally my half hour usage is 0.62 to 1.6 kWh, and that is achieved by mitigating usage across two half hour periods.

The real issue is, one should only be charged for actual DEMAND USAGE on a daily basis, not a peak amount that may happen once or twice in the month.

AGL CLAIM that the DEMAND PENALTY is a requirement of the state government’s and the provider has no recourse.

BIG BROTHER DICTATING HOW YOU WILL LIVE.

The other way to fix this is to eat your evening meal prior to 16:00 or after 21:00

[NeilC]

@Johnmollenhauer 

No-one has to accept the plan they are on, you can find a new one or move to another retailer.

In this day of IT, there is no reason why they cannot do the DEMAND TAX daily, they calculate it every day and do a IF HIGHER calculation, IF HIGHER they apply the new rate, other wise you just keep paying the higher rate.

Either way they should transmit to you your daily DEMAND TAX rate along with your daily report, that way you could relate to your usage.

Thinking about that, they could also send to you your daily usages, eg peak, shoulder, off-peak plus any controlled load usages.

You know the rates, so you could work out your everything if you processed the data.

Have been doing this since I started with AGL and can show you every kWh  that I have consumed and except for 26 days every kWh that our Solar Panels have generated.

I am amazed, based on my DATA how much AGL is making by their reduced Solar Rates, especially in Summer in SA.

Also they are not paying customers that are getting a government rebate for the kWh they generate but only the kWh that is due for the Rebate.

Whoever decided that (some accountant I presume) realised that they can double dip, because they are not paying them for the power they generate, but they are on selling that to their non- solar customers as usage at the current rate, any remaining excess is then sold back as GENERATION on the grid. OOPS that means they are triple dipping.

Any way forecast for this financial year is $500,000 to nearly 1 Billion Dollars.

Yep they will show this by not decreasing their charges, BUT I AM GETTING OFFERS FROM AGL NOW THAT ARE BETTER RATES THAN NOW but only if I am a NEW CUSTOMER...

I will still tell you, you do not have to be on DEMAND TAX and can switch to better rates by taking better rates from AGL or from other Retailers.