topic Re: Solar Panel Regrets in Solar, Batteries & Electrification

Solar Panel Regrets

rennix — Thu, 11 Apr 2024 21:12:43 GMT

I'm wondering if anyone has any regrets with installing their Soalr Panels please? Or wished they had known differently when installing their solar panels?

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Thu, 11 Apr 2024 23:00:11 GMT

You would certainly not be alone @rennix

A lot of people fall for the flash ads and cheap offers, or salespeople are focused on sales, not what's good for the client.

Later you are are left to discover solar isn't suited to your home hours, power usage, and those cheap string systems not the best for your needs / site parameters.

I was lucky enough to do a bit of googling, found the solarquotes site, and wow, that place has some of the best info, blog write ups, ALL the ins and outs of solar, batteries, and related tech.

They also offer a referral service to get 3 quotes from the best local installers for your inputted needs.

I went to many other sites as well and gleaned what I could, recognising how complex solar systems can be, and how (almost as) complex getting on the right retailer plan can be.

So what's your regret(s) and have you looked at ways you might be able to possibly remedy these ?

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Caban — Fri, 12 Apr 2024 07:36:58 GMT

I did have some regrets with my first set of batteries.

They were Lead Acid Deep Discharge 6V Batteries. They had a five year warranty and an expected life of eight to twelve years. The problem with these cells is they need to be operated within the correct parameters. They should not be discharged below 60% and they need ti be cycled. When my original controller caught fire they were left uncharged for too long. This lead to one cell failing at a bit over six years. I thought I could just buy one battery, but that will not work, the whole bank needs to be replaced.

The problem is that in 2013 that was the only affordable battery.

I looked at replacing it with a Lithium Ion cells, but found they have almost as many disadvantages as the Lead Acid. Their main advantage is they are very energy dense, which is good for transport operations (Cars etc) but my house does not move. After having one Solar related fire the danger of thermal runaway was scary.

I ended up buying LTO Batteries and think they tick nearly all the required boxes.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

rennix — Fri, 12 Apr 2024 10:51:21 GMT

I am looking at installing and am trying to avoid hefty mistakes as I know not much at all about this stuff. Just that my current power bill is crazy high and I might be better off investing in solar panels finally. I never did understand them enough to get them done. Never knew who to trust.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:17:15 GMT

Good you got in the research before buying !

Go the that link I put in above (whoops, I put that in another post recently, see below), it really has a lot, and I mean a lot, of great info.

Other places to find good info is YouTube, search for > solar australia < and see what comes up (skim the news ones, look for informative channels).

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/

First thing is to look at how you use power, and when you use power.

If you are home a lot during the day, or someone there doing washing, using power etc, then it helps justify getting solar, that really is the biggest way solar saves you, using power when you self consume your production.

If you come home after hours and do that stuff, solar will almost be a waste of $ (feed in is chicken feed, a little bonus towards supply charge), unless you get a larger system and a battery from the start, and manage power using that for after hours.

Competent and honest solar companies / installers / sales people will carefully look at your bills and help you work out what you might need.

Good luck, very glad we took the leap 4 months ago.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:24:13 GMT

Oh, and I do have one small regret . . . not getting a battery from the start.

Solar is good for us, because we use a lot of our power during the day.

The billing period about the end in our first full one with solar, no joke would have been a grand bill, on track for $200.

We put 70% of our production into the grid each day, if we had a battery we'd pretty much be able to use that for non daylight needs, and the rest into the grid would probably cover all of our supply charges, wiping the power bill totally.

We might even be able to look at setting up the account with VPP and allow some of our battery to go to the grid when demand is high, much better feed in rates !

After Winter and seeing how that goes, I will probably analyse if it's worth getting a powerwall 2.

Just having the optional blackout protection is a nice bonus with a battery.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Caban — Fri, 12 Apr 2024 23:31:50 GMT

@Lester

My battery does cover the night consumption, with a little left over, about 95% of the time.

The Feed In is reduced, as that power is being fed to the battery. That lowers the offset for the Daily Charge.

My Daily Charge is very high, so I would end up with a bill if it wasn't for the Govt Rebates.

Is the the Muskstick II battery Lithium Ion technology?

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 00:00:52 GMT

Cheers @Caban

Not as much grid feed in true, but much better value to use your battery power through the night than from the grid for sure, why a battery is very efficient with grid solar setups.

At least here, our evening peak tou rate to midnight is 50c and feed in 6c, so an incredible difference.

Yes, lithium ion, 13.5kw usable, guaranteed 10 year guaranteed to still maintain 70% with unlimited cycles.

They expect it will be more like 80%, but I feel the usual lithium rules of not running down too low is good to do if possible, hence 13.5kw is good to have available, might use say 4 or 5kw of that overnight.

Not much one can do about upper charge level, but might be able to programme them to stop charging at 85% or 90% then send to grid.

One should be able to manage a typical home with that.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Caban — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 05:22:26 GMT

@Lester

Maybe the wrong thread but I think I would have regretted getting a Lithium Ion battery. Having had on battery set which had a relatively short lifespan and did not tolerate complete discharge, I was not in a hurry to repeat that mistake. Hence getting LTO instead. Warranty of 90% capacity at 20 years and projected lifespan of 50+ years seems a better investment to me.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 06:52:00 GMT

Yeah I suppose the main reasons lto batteries aren’t as widely used is the trade off of lower energy density, higher price, and limitations in cycle life.
For pretty much all lithium best practice with how low you deplete them and high you charge them regularly is key for any of their longevity.
Having a battery is still fairly rare for most solar system owners, but it’s getting more common with advantages it can bring overall, and getting better with financial justification in many situations.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Caban — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 07:06:07 GMT

@Lester

When I purchased them, the LTO were about the same price as Lion.

The lower density is not a disadvantage in a static application. Where it is an advantage is that they are way more stable and not subject to thermal runaway.

They do not have any cycle limitations and can be completely discharged.

In today's market they are a bit more expensive on initial purchase, but that has to be offset against not having to replace them in about 12 years.

I agree that a good battery system completes a home power system.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 22:31:55 GMT

Might have to look at what LTO offerings there are in Australia.

I did find info some months ago saying there were limitations in longevity, or maybe the gist was that because regular lithium ion cycles are getting so good now that cycle life is really a moot point.

The battery folk I've spoken to thus far, including one who has installed over 2000 powerwalls and powerwall 2's in the US, not one cited fire / thermal runaway incident is known to them personally, but I have found a couple of US news reports, could be bad installation issue too I guess.

Powerwall 3 has a new chemical tech and is supposedly safer, if it really was a major issue.

Yet upwards of 50 Tesla vehicle fires to date, could be mostly older tech batteries, but I wonder why such a discrepancy to home battery incidents (or lack of).

Battery tech is certainly advancing rapidly.

I hope the battery side track is ok with the OP, I feel knowing now what I do that getting solar and looking seriously at a battery same time is worth knowing about.

Depending on your situation a battery is really going to help you negate power bills, and getting one along with solar at the start will save several thousand $, and be more streamlined / better compatible.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

passement — Wed, 12 Jun 2024 04:27:43 GMT

I've installed two systems.

The first was offered by an energy retailer and while the system worked fine it was apparent that the components and panels were, to put it politely, not the best available. The one thing I didn't like about the first system was how quickly the solar panels performance diminished.

The second system I put a lot more thought into it. Consequently I engaged a company that are considered experts in solar system installations. They were able to offer me a range of panels to suit my budget and location conditions. I had some challenges with my second system's aspect and the company were able to offer solutions that took into account these challenges. I felt they cared about the long term performance and longevity of their systems. They are in the game for the long run.

Despite the second system being significantly more expensive I am a lot happier with its performance. I have no regrets.

My advice. Engage a reputible solar company and don't skimp on the quality of the panels and inverter. With solar you get what you pay for.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Wed, 12 Jun 2024 05:30:25 GMT

Some good advice @passement

Always pays to get a bit of an education when taking on something like solar, it's a big investment for most people.

I found some good channels on youtube, and solarquotes blogs, articles, and youtube vids are probably the best.

Solarquotes also offer 3 quotes from respected solar / battery companies, and tailor who they refer to you by looking at your needs.

Paying about $1000 per kwh for solar, and same for kw of battery capacity, is about right for a good system.

The days of 6kw systems are looking like prehistoric era now, with most advising to get as much on the roof as you can, within reason of performance and needs, as you can future proof.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Zues — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 06:48:11 GMT

If your going to get panels, fill every inch of your roof with them and get as much battery storage as possible

I did mine in stages as I could afford it, 16kw panels first, then another 10kw of panels then 13kw of batteries, then another 13kw of bateries

Havent had a bill since 2020, through summer I export over 100kw per day back to the grid, you could charge a few cordless cars with that if your into that sort of thing

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

_Steve — Fri, 10 Jan 2025 21:30:10 GMT

Hello, Thought I would let you know I have found this thread / exchange informative and helpful, if only because it tells me I'm not alone ! lol. We are looking seriously at getting solar installed, but have a growing list of concerns that may result in my regretting it.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Fri, 10 Jan 2025 22:36:06 GMT

Steve, you are far ahead of a lot that get solar, and don't do any research, relying on solar companies and their self interest.

Keep educating yourself a bit more, so you know when some salesperson is not asking you the right things, or not recommending the best options.

I found this site the best for info, and the blog articles.

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/

You'll see a topics list on the right hand side, and possibly the Start Here might be best to begin with https://www.solarquotes.com.au/solar101.html depending on how much you have researched so far.

I would aim to get solar AND a battery if possible, you really have to assess how your household uses power.

If you are home during the day and use power during solar hours, you could manage to cut bills substantially with just a decent sized solar system, I'd recommend minimum 10kw.

But then THAT depends on your roof area to optimal north, perhaps some east and west is ok, and VERY importantly, if you have any shading there.

*EDIT. Meant to say, with falling FITs in many areas (and all will follow), you must self consume, not depend on any FIT, that should be considered a sweetener to contribute to / eliminate supply charge.*

If your household has people working during the day, and most use is outside good productive solar hours, you will likely get little from solar without a battery.

A battery is not the be all and end all, if you were to use big air cond in the late afternoon, through the night, you will probably have problems with a battery draining, you still need to be frugal where possible, but most homes through the year can manage quite well on 3kw - 5kw or so through a night, even running a small room air cond / single zone.

It's great now the Tesla Powerwall 3 is out, 13.5kwh usable, combined with 15kw inverter, really saves space, install time, clutter on the install location.

You also need to consider other things, like if you have an electric HWS, this should be removed from any CL metering it might be on now, onto a normal circuit, either timed using a Catch Power unit, or at least a timer so you can set it for solar hours during summer and shoulder, and perhaps a boost during winter if needed in the cheapest power times for your area.

(If you have gas, you could consider whenever upgrading to get onto electric, and use your solar for free HW.)

Plans and tariffs in your area are ANOTHER thing you have to watch.

Are you on single tariff now, or TOU (if on a smart meter already), what rates does your local area have with AGL / other retailers, if on an older analogue meter now, can you stay on single tariff if you want, or are you forced onto TOU ?

All these things are needed to be considered when assessing getting into solar, and how you can benefit.

It's a minefield, just research properly, and you will probably come out well in front.

Good luck.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Caban — Sun, 12 Jan 2025 08:48:49 GMT

Personally I would not touch a Powerwall.

Firstly I do not like the chemistry, which has only a medium level lifespan, but mainly due to the identity of the owner.

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

_Steve — Sat, 22 Feb 2025 22:42:50 GMT

Our big concern at the moment, as we are considering investing in getting solar panels installed, we are wondering, when you got your solar panels installed did AGL change the plan ( i.e. charge you higher rates ) for the electricity you had to buy ?

Re: Solar Panel Regrets

Lester — Sun, 23 Feb 2025 02:50:04 GMT

Yes, can be higher rates, at least for some times of day.

We were automatically moved onto a TOU (time of use) tariff plan, when we were on a single tariff with CL for the hws on the old analogue metering.

I didn't pick it up until the rates were sent on the new plan, but it sort of averaged lower for solar soak hours, and higher for peak non solar hours . . . apart from an 8c 0000-0600 EV rate, which we don't get a lot out of apart from hot nights and the split air cond, and charging sons EV (registered here) when he's often home from work.

Changing one from single to TOU type tariffs should be advised, especially if there is a choice one can make.

I have read news articles past months that have brought this up, and maybe now AGL would advise what options a new solar client has to stay on single tariff etc.

After the change, we sort of clicked that (at the time, not sure about now) we could have asked to stay on single tariff, with CL, but when we looked at our production, usage through a day, times we could use power and self consume, it really didn't make a lot of difference to our power costs.

Best advice I can give now, given lowering FITS, likely to be zero in the coming year or two, and ever rising power costs, get good sized solar (10kw+) and a battery (10kwh+ usable) if you can, especially if you are a working family and can't consume a lot of your production during the day.

Self consumption during solar soak 1000-1500 and the shoulder hours is where you REALLY save with solar only now, we don't pay a thing for daily usage on a sunny day between about 0800 to up to 1900 during DST.

That solar battery advice is totally dependant on your own homes energy needs, usage, times of usage, site solar production capabilities / limitations, your state plans and tariffs available, what AGL offers in the way of options for plans, tariff types, rates, and use your past recant 4 seasons of bills for 12 months to look at what sized system / possible battery you need to consider.