topic Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar in Meters & Connections

Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Malster — Fri, 11 Apr 2025 23:18:39 GMT

So recently anyone with a Controlled Load (CL1 or CL2) service was advised that they were changing the timings to move some of the CL during the day when solar is abundant. Makes logical and environmental sense.

What they failed to tell us is that the CL will be using your own solar, but they will still charge you full-rate for your CL service.

In my case, where my HWS dissipates approx 4800kW I can observe the following:

Solar production :~3kW

Approx 500W used by house

Leaves 2.5kW exported.

CL activates for 10 min (11:00am)

Now importing 2.4kW

Thus i am only drawing down 2.4kW from the grid..

Actual grid consumption for that 10min:

2400 / (60min/10) = 400Wh

What did my raw data from smart meter say? 931Wh for CL usage.

So I got billed for all the CL1 usage, even though it came from my own solar.

If you have your own monitoring as I do (2 independent systems), you might want to check what is happening with your CL service.

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Lester — Sat, 12 Apr 2025 10:05:22 GMT

Hi mate.

Is your CL on a separate meter ?

Ours was, as rational a I can put our change when we went solar . . .

Before - We had one analogue meter, single tariff, with off peak on a timer, 2 registers, the main usage and then off peak J tariff usage.

After - 2 new digital smart meters, one for main circuit and solar feed in, one for CL, both on TOU (time of use).

What I'm getting at is it seems strange to have CL through your main meter, along with regular usage and solar feed.

Our CL was separate, with similar 4 blocks of usage tariffs a day . . . off peak 0100-0600, peak 0600-1000, shoulder 1000-1500, and another peak 1500-0100.

This was totally outside our solar usage, which annoyed me for about 12 months, thinking I could be running the HWS from say 1100-1400 free from the sun.

I think it was SAPN (the one supplier here in SA), they just set up as like for like as they could to match the old pre solar set up.

Ours would come on mainly during the shoulder 1000-1500, and just a tiny bit in the off peak time.

Ironically, shoulder is cheaper than off peak now, due to solar soak we get in SA.

So just check that you are looking at it all one one meter, or if 2 and they are just separate as I suspect.

I can't explain why your CL readings might read more, if you are seeing it using solar, there could be a wiring issue causing it to double up.

I fixed our situation a few months ago, had a sparky put the HWS on regular circuit, and had a timer fitted.

Now CL shows nothing more to readings.

We can just set the timer for whenever we like, but oddly enough it worked out more sensible to put it onto a block of special tariff rate from 0000-0600, and let it heat up for 8c/kwh, rather than risk going outside solar production with any poor weather or other usage peaks during the day.

That's sort of temporary anyway until we get a battery, which will make all that a moot point.

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Malster — Sat, 12 Apr 2025 12:29:39 GMT

Hi Lester,

No, it's now a single meter LG unit. Single mains feed in, CL and Main circuit to fuse box out.

All sampling done inside single meter.

Their customer service tech boffin assured me that it's not the case, (just a phone jokey I suspect), but I have all the graphs and data to prove it..

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Lester — Sat, 12 Apr 2025 23:54:27 GMT

You might need help to escalate this past the front line phone help.

They should be able to do this, but sometimes it gets somehow neglected.

Sounds like you need to get through to the tech dept for sure.

Your AGL data download will also show the general info for 30 minute intervals.

If you can read your other various data, you will easily be able to match up the data in the CSV file with yours, and compare.

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Malster — Sun, 13 Apr 2025 00:19:05 GMT

Hi Lester,

Yes that's how I investigated, downloaded the raw data and checked against my 2 systems to confirm what was happening.

I had suspected they would do that, why not right, make more $ from un-suspecting or non-tech folks.

I have resent my data after the first CS guy dismissed me, see if he escalates it.. Otherwise I'll do so and advise ombudsman.

Personally, I don't care about the $, but I do care about companies playing us like fools. Bit like insurance companies taking the p#ss out of us.

Be honest and upfront so we can trust you.

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

SYED_AGL — Mon, 14 Apr 2025 04:12:29 GMT

Hi Malster,

I'm really sorry to hear about the trouble you've been experiencing. I completely understand how frustrating this must be for you. Rest assured, our dedicated team is ready and more than happy to look into this for you. If the issue is still ongoing, please don't hesitate to reach out to us directly at https://www.agl.com.au/help-support/contact-us. We’ll make sure to get it resolved as quickly as possible.

Alternatively, if you can send us your account details via private message and if your issue has not been addressed so far then, we can escalate it for you further.

Thank you for your patience, and we're here to help!

Syed

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Malster — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 22:44:20 GMT

Syed, I have PM'd you. No response as yet..

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

SYED_AGL — Wed, 16 Apr 2025 05:48:09 GMT

Hi,

As discussed during our phone conversation, we've sent you an email that includes the reference number related to the ongoing investigation regarding the CL. Please check your inbox at your earliest convenience, and feel free to reach out if you have any questions or need further clarification.

We're here to support you every step of the way.

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Malster — Wed, 28 May 2025 23:15:34 GMT

Sayed man, what's happening with the investigation?

No replies for ages now, seems they have discovered something and are hiding ? Not really here to "support me every step of the way" it seems?

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

SYED_AGL — Mon, 02 Jun 2025 05:54:20 GMT

Hi,

Thank you for reaching out to us — we appreciate you bringing this to our attention.

In situations like this, we typically escalate the matter to the appropriate department for investigation. Once the relevant team has looked into it, we also request that they follow up directly with you to share any findings or next steps.

Please note that issues of this nature often fall under the responsibility of either the metering coordinator or the energy distributor, depending on the area you reside in. We understand this can be a bit confusing, but rest assured, we’re here to ensure it gets to the right hands for resolution.

If you have any questions in the meantime or need further clarification, feel free to get in touch

please don't hesitate to reach out to us directly at https://www.agl.com.au/help-support/contact-us. We’ll make sure to get it resolved as quickly as possible.

SYED

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Malster — Mon, 02 Jun 2025 05:58:02 GMT

Sayed,

I have been emailing you as my advocate abut no replies from you.

I will be taking this to the ombudsman for investigation. You can't rip people off and then palm it off to others.

You are the billing party, not Endeavour.

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

SYED_AGL — Mon, 02 Jun 2025 06:38:14 GMT

I'm really sorry to hear about your experience — I understand how frustrating this must be.

To clarify, we rely on data provided directly by your energy distributor to generate your invoice. We don’t make independent decisions about billing; rather, we pass on the information as it’s supplied to us.

In this case, the issue likely lies with either the metering coordinator or the distributor, depending on your location. Once they’ve identified and corrected the issue on their end, your invoice will automatically reflect the updated information.

If you need help identifying the right contact or would like us to escalate the matter on your behalf, we’re more than happy to assist once again which we have done in the past.

SYED

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Debanian — Thu, 05 Jun 2025 22:13:42 GMT

I just read the most recent response you had from AGL and have to wonder why your issue hasn't already been "escalated on your behalf"?

Your initial post has me digging into my own situation and I think it's replicating here in NSW but am having trouble accessing my historical data.

I agree wholeheartedly with your motivation and good luck with the Ombudsman!

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Malster — Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:27:42 GMT

Exactly Debanian. AGL are the ones incorrectly billing 000's of customers, but wipe their hands of the issue (as it benefits them I guess). They should be advocating for their customers, since it is their billing reputation being affected. No-one is going to say, oh don't move to an Endeavour controlled area as they supply dodgy data. What people will say is, don't use AGL as they are billing customers wrongly and don't give a sh*t about it.

So they uselessly gave me a "Ticket number" but failed to tell me who it is with, what number to call and what dept owns it. They might as well given me 20c and said go call someone who cares.

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

mickunder — Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:43:59 GMT

I have a similar issue re not being able to use solar to heat water.

I do have a battery and cant use that for controlled Load either.

I could go down the timer route, but logically there should be technology to transfer excess solar into hot water.

Lester where do you get the 8c/kw hr?

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Malster — Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:56:27 GMT

I assume its the EV tariff Lester is talking about...

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Lester — Fri, 06 Jun 2025 00:11:03 GMT

@mickunder "I have a similar issue re not being able to use solar to heat water.

I do have a battery and cant use that for controlled Load either.

I could go down the timer route, but logically there should be technology to transfer excess solar into hot water.

Lester where do you get the 8c/kw hr?"

Exactly, if you have CL at all, you can't use any solar for the HWS, or other CL items.

It's just metered separately.

As per my previous page post, the HWS can be wired onto the main circuit, and a timer can be used (cheap option).

This cost me $380 all up from memory.

Or as you posted above you prefer set and forget, a Catch Power type device which is smart, and uses excess solar anytime it's not used in the home, ie instead of feeding back to the grid it'll top off heat the HWS first.

They are about $1000 + install, probably up round $1500 total.

There are probably home automation type apps that can be used to control that too, I read about them on various forums / blogs.

As you have a battery, you could just put the HWS onto your main circuit, a simple job for any sparky.

Then it will use your battery to heat your hot water.

Just have to be sure your solar kw is up to the task, along with the battery spare capacity.

In our HWS usage, we use about 6kwh (@8c) each night if we just have it on the timer for the EV Night Saver rate 0000-0600.

This is for winter, when we would go over during the day just on the HWS 3.6kw element, and even shoulders of winter we would go over if not a perfect sunny day, and when we might also boil the kettle or other high usage item.

On sunny days, if I put the timer into the on position when the suns out and we are producing up around 4.5kw PV, if I put it on for a couple of hours, it does a main top off, then a mini run, and that then brings daily usage down to about 3 to 4 kwh a night, with a very small top off during the 8c time.

In 3 months of summer, as long as the sun is shining, I could easily use the timer for say 1100 - 1500 daily and get the hot water heated free, as we can consistently produce around 8 - 9 kwh during that time.

As mentioned above, the 8c tariff is on the EV Night Saver plan, rate for ALL power coming into the home from 0000-0600.

Not all states or regions may have this, or they may have different times or rates.

There are lots of retailers now providing low cost rates, but usually during the day when solar soak is high, and solar system owners don't really get any benefit.

There may be more deals using cheaper times of day coming up, as retailers will always have to try and keep ahead of these new deals brought out.

Having decent PV and a battery is really the only way to have a chance at keeping ahead of bills now.

Will that remain so ?

Or will supply charges go up and up, maybe demand charges introduced more widely to catch people making mistakes in keeping usage low in peak demand times, will some other fee be (allowed to be) introduced to make up for all the solar / battery uptake coming ?

If we don't see such increases, people not able to get solar and a battery for financial or other reasons (renting, bad shading, etc) will be picking up hugely increasing bills.

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Debanian — Fri, 06 Jun 2025 00:38:03 GMT

I'm in the throws of getting a battery and have been seriously contemplating going down the Amber path). Have you considered it?

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Debanian — Fri, 06 Jun 2025 00:40:05 GMT

amber dot com dot au forward slash how hyphen it hyphen works

Re: Is it fraud? New Controlled Load using your solar

Lester — Fri, 06 Jun 2025 23:22:15 GMT

@Debanian I've got good solar, but no battery (yet), and have looked at Amber pretty closely in the past 12 months.

It's an interesting concept, but not one to take lightly, or on face value of the ads you see on faceache, their website info, etc.

You see those that think great, I'll try that, and no kidding, no matter how much it's out there on info online, they do so even without solar, let alone with no battery !

I would never consider Amber even with huge solar only, must have that battery.

You're on the right thinking, you NEED a battery, but then you still have to be cautious.

If your PV is fairly small, and battery likewise smaller capacity or not getting enough charge, especially through winter, you will likely find that you can get caught with big bills.

You need to be setup with much more PV than you use most days, to enable coping year round, not just running the home needs, but to charge the battery right through those winter days so enough to cope with your home's needs, and export a useful amount in those 5 months or so, winter and a month either side.

There's the Amber faceache group that has MANY comments about how it sucks, how many fees there are (and there's a lot !), how you rarely get $15 or $10 FIT, usually it's lucky to be 50c - $1 (but hey, that's pretty good now *), and people do get stuck with $15 / kWh charges if something blips in the settings, 5 minute intervals, etc.

* IF you have that high PV output and more battery than you really could normally cope with in just home usage.

I'd read up on that FB group, google Amber electricity, have a good read about fees / charges, read users experiences.

Those that know HOW to use the system properly, CAN make some decent returns, but many say you have to micro manage it, like day trading the stock market, to get more from it.

The auto Smartshift is still teething, coming from 30min to 5 min data I believe now, but many have to go to the NEM app or AEMO to see the accurate 5 minute pricing, and manage accordingly, a bit of a pain.

Me, I'll probably be happy once we get a battery onto our 11.23kw optimised solar, probably 13kWh to 19kWh of storage, get onto best retailer plan to suit our home and usage, and be happy to get a small cost for daily supply charge, with some of that offset by the FIT at the still 4c here.

When that eventually diminishes to 2c, or even zero, we will look again at Amber, perhaps another similar wholesale supplier (localvolts, other retailer with time of use tariff options).

For now, AGL suits our needs, with bills down 75% over the whole year average to what we were paying pre solar.