topic Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily in Energy Accounts & Plans

Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

runbren — Mon, 10 Oct 2022 01:45:48 GMT

Hi All,

I don't understand why we are being charged the Demand Charge rate for the worst day for the billing period across the entire period.

Doesn't it make more sense to apply that on a daily basis?

For example, if someone turns on the kettle, toaster and then a heater on one of the days of my billing period, I get charged as if I did that everyday.

My demand on the power grid was only applicable on that one day, so it makes sense to do this on a daily basis.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

Denmar — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 01:58:15 GMT

I thought that too when I got the new smart meter installed and then got the email.

Surely it should be established on the average demand across the days of the billing period !

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

runbren — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 08:10:35 GMT

I agree with their strategy of charging for the max demand on the system for a small period such as 30min. It will create motivation for people to spread out their demand across the demand period.

I don't think it's fair to charge someone as if they had that max demand for the entire month if it was just for 1 night.

However, I had a call with AGL today and she explained you only get charged the demand charge on a per day basis. So the 1 night I use 8kWhs in 30 minutes, I only get charged the demand charge for that day. Unlike AGLs own explanation on https://www.agl.com.au/rates-contracts/electricity-tariffs?rmxt3r=vwt06z

Which states it's the max on 1 day times by the number of stuff in a billing period.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

_Mark_ — Fri, 14 Oct 2022 06:37:44 GMT

Hi @runbren, while I do get your argument for daily charges, I want to clear up what sounds like some misinformation. The webpage you linked is correct: Demand is calculated from the highest demand peak hit and applied to each day of the month. It is only recalculated if you hit a higher peak, and then that new peak would apply to every day. It's not calculated day by day as the call you had sounds like it was telling you, and i'm sorry if that led to any confusion!

Thanks,
Mark.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

runbren — Fri, 14 Oct 2022 11:04:28 GMT

Thanks Mark.

I did explain to the AGL staff member several times how the AGL's website says it calculates the max and applies it to all days of the billing period and she kept insisting that different areas calculate it differently and mine is calculated on a daily basis. Thanks for clearing that up.

I have yet to receive a bill with this new plan, so I'll see what that turns out to be.

1 other peice of information that i get conflicting answers to is how can AGL calculates the demand against a max kW for a 30 minute period? The unit of the demand charge is c/kW/day but AGL's explanation page is actually apply the demand to the max kWh for a 30 minute period. There is a massive difference between charging someone for the energy used in 30 minutes and the max instantaneous power consumed.

For example, I can use 8kW for 1 minute. That's 0.133kWh if I use no other energy in that 30 minuts, assuming this is the max for the billing period.

So is AGL charging:

8(kW)*2(hour)*0.25(c)*30(days) = $120 for the billing period as per the site

0.133(kWh)*0.25(c)*30(days) = $0.99 for the billing period

Obviously no one would only use 8kW for 1 minute and 0.133kWh would be the max 30 min energy consumption for the month but I'm just using it as an example to illastrate the difference.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

Giff — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 00:47:44 GMT

Actually neither.

0.133(kWh for 30 minutes)* 2 (consumption for 1 hour)*0.25(c)*30(days) = $1.99 for the billing period.

The purpose of the demand charge is to encourage lower usage during peak times, but you are heavily penalised for the entire month if you digress just for just one 30 minute period.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

runbren — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 04:28:15 GMT

Hi Giff,

Thanks for you reply.

That's interesting that you are multiplying the energy consumption of 0.133 by 2.

The reason the 8kW power measurement is multiplied by 2 is because it is power for 30 minutes i.e. kW x h = kWh (energy i.e Joules). Since 0.133kWh is already a measurement of energy you don't need to multply by 2 to convert to an hour consumption. Then it would be kWh x h = kW(h)^2 which is not a measurement of energy or power.

This is one of the reasons for my confusion with the demand charge having a unit of c/kW/day when even AGLs explanatory webiste uses the demand charge as if it's unit is c/kWh/day.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

Giff — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 08:56:05 GMT

In order to get kW from the energy consumption, divide 0.113kWh by 0.5h (30 minutes).

- the h’s cancel out and we just have kW

- dividing by 0.5 is the same as multiplying by 2.

Cheers

Giff

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

runbren — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 09:45:34 GMT

Hi Giff,

Thanks again. I see what you mean. I found the source of my confusion. AGLs explanation has this which contradicts. I thought the calculation was multiplying the kW by 2 but they're actually multiplying the kWh by 2, which makes way more sense.

AGL should really change that graph.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

schmidtronald24 — Thu, 01 Dec 2022 07:40:03 GMT

If agl. wants.to.keep.cusomers they need to rid themselves of high peek power AMD only charge what people use.

Agl. Has been warned of our separation if my power bill is to high.

They think once in always in.

No you don't double ones power bill over nightsa.power networks need a talking to also for the meter installed I won't pay for and didn't want

I am here and true

Tassie and partner Ron orroroo

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

schmidtronald24 — Fri, 02 Dec 2022 01:50:55 GMT

Agree with you it's a cheep way to get riped off I believe I am getting that from the start

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

-Olgi- — Fri, 02 Dec 2022 01:53:17 GMT

Hi @schmidtronald24,

Thanks for getting in touch! Distributors across the country have moved to a more cost reflective structure meaning that customers with smart meters have been moved to Demand tariff or Time of Use tariff. This is designed to take the pressure off the grid at times when the demand is highest.

We are always happy to check that you're on the best plan that we have available, so that you're receiving lowest rates for your tariff. You can also check with us what tariff options are available in your Distribution area, if the tariff that you're on doesn't work for you. We are here to help, so feel free to contact us any time.

Thanks,

-Olgi-

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

schmidtronald24 — Fri, 02 Dec 2022 01:58:23 GMT

You are not looking after me you are looking after you you have more than
doubled my cost I am been riped off and it's at the ombudsman

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

Bronson — Sat, 03 Dec 2022 04:01:19 GMT

I agree with you I feel I'm being ripped off also.

Control load power comes on 3 times a day with the new smart meter installed (which I did not ask for) when it only came on 2 times on the old digital meter.

Being home all day as a retired home owner I turn the control load circuit breaker off for up to 3 or 4 days to break the cycle of the new meter.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

_Mark_ — Tue, 06 Dec 2022 05:45:33 GMT

Hi @schmidtronald24, I can take a look to make sure that you are being billed correctly for you, i'm just going to send you a private message as we will need to look at your account.

Thanks,
Mark.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

bknig30 — Fri, 09 Dec 2022 01:07:00 GMT

While my cynicism is bubbling to the surface, I will wait and see what my next bill looks like.

After calling (and moving past the overseas call centre), and speaking to a seemingly knowledgable local representative, a couple of things became a tad more clear. Firstly, and I'm sure its in the fine print somewhere, AGL are discontinuing the additional 5c/kw feed in tariff (on top of the state government's 44c), that was used as an incentive to lure customers in.

Secondly the gentleman stated that this "max 30 minute period hit" was in force from 4:00pm - 9:00pm. He suggested running the pool pump, washing machine, drier, oven etc outside these times.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

-Olgi- — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 00:08:51 GMT

Hi @bknig30,

Welcome to AGL Neighbourhood! It sounds like our customer service team has looked after you already with this enquiry. If you need further help, please feel free to let us know.

Thanks,

Olgi

Re: Demand Tarrif calculations

Johnmollenhauer — Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:29:07 GMT

There is much confusion about how and what’s included in the DEMAND PENALTY.

I have been billed for 7 months now, May thru November and the calculation is the same.

Each month the highest usage rate for that month is identified and the calcs start…..

Usage identified kWh X 2 X applicable rate $0.1124/kWh X number of days in that specific month.
eg. usage 3.26kWh X 2 X $0.1124 X 30 days = $21.98 for the specific month.

All billing’s are calculated the same with all days being treated as equal to the max for the month.

To rub salt into the wound, I was away for one month, however came home for one night cooked a meal, racked up a usage figure for the half hour, charged 30 days at that one off time usage rate.

Furthermore with the so-called SMART METER one can see the half hour usage rates and match the used rate for the DEMAND PENALTY. All but for two rates used which were higher. I was unable to confirm the rate used.

Then there is the issue of when usage rates are assigned to the start and finish times of 16:00 and 21:00. I have been caught with thinking at 15:59 and 21:01 are outside the PENALTY time frame, but NO. The app data shows that usages up to and after the nominated times is questionable if it is included in the DEMAND PENALTY PERIOD.

With SMART METERS actual usage can be billed with ease, an algorithm can do that with all the data collected from your household.

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

Johnmollenhauer — Wed, 14 Dec 2022 07:32:11 GMT

No ! I have been charged the 8kWh scenario 7 times now

Re: Demand Tarrif Should be Charged Daily

-Olgi- — Wed, 14 Dec 2022 22:35:14 GMT

Hi @Johnmollenhauer,

Welcome to AGL Neighbourhood! Thank you for providing feedback about the Demand tariff. Tariffs are set by Distributors and not something that we can change. Current Demand tariff is designed to take the pressure off the grid at the busiest times when the demand is high.

You may have an option to opt out of Demand tariff and change to another tariff type. If this is something that you may be interested in exploring, you can contact us via one of our platforms listed here.

Kind Regards,

-Olgi-